Alex Kvaskov, Assistant News Editor
Featured image courtesy of York Media
President and Vice-Chancellor Mamdouh Shoukri, although he prefers just Mamdouh, stopped by Excalibur’s offices last week to chat about the issues facing York and its community.
Shoukri, coming to the end of his tenure as president, says York’s faculty often grandstand when it comes to contract negotiations and collegiality.
People attack the process when they do not have a substantial critique, says Shoukri. While there may be a vocal minority that draws attention to itself, he points out, it’s the “silent majority” who are satisfied with the way York is governed.
Quoting Mark Twain, Shoukri says everyone wants change, but no one wants to change. He notes faculty are quick to support change, but protest when their programs are up for review.
Ninety per cent of applications to York fall into 40 per cent of the programs, according to Shoukri. In fact, York’s top 10 most popular programs account for a considerable, but unspecified, number of students.
In this context, York is reviewing the viability of low enrolment programs, which has attracted the ire of faculty.
“A program that has few applications is not by definition a program that should be cut,” says Shoukri.
“It’s a program that we should look at and see what is the value and demand. We cannot ignore that the majority of our programs are receiving a very small percentage of applications.”
York has a plan to deal with its budget deficit and the deficit need not be eliminated in one year, according to Shoukri.
“I want to make sure while we’re eliminating the deficit, we’re making an investment and the investment has to be made in the area of tenure track appointments, mainly because tenure track appointments are a solution for maintaining the quality of [teaching and learning],” he adds.
He acknowledges the growing administrative burden faculty face, pointing to York’s rapid growth in previous decades, which necessitated increased administrative services.
Today, York needs to streamline its complex administrative structure, says Shoukri.
“Administrative services are complex and we need to clean that up continuously.”
Shoukri says faculty budget allocations have outpaced the growth in administrative functions.
Addressing recent controversies regarding a mural in the Student Centre, Shoukri says being uncomfortable with others’ opinions is part of growing up and an important aspect of the university experience.
Debate will be vigorous, but must remain respectful, says Shoukri. Feelings must not enter the debate as students cannot tell each other what and how to feel.
“It is always up to the majority to reach out [to minorities],” he adds.
Shoukri says he was never labelled as belonging to any specific minority group before he came to York.
“Maybe because I’m not predisposed to a feeling of being discriminated against,” he says. “I don’t walk around feeling that I’m different. Maybe because I’m not willing to feel that way.”
“As soon as I came to York, I realized I would be seen through a specific lens.”
Shoukri adds that York is one of the most collegial systems and that some of the faculties’ demands actually infringe on the rights of administration.
Israel-Palestine:
Shoukri discusses the reasons why Israel-Palestine tensions are especially prominent at York, saying there is a lot of history involved, which produces strong feelings and advocacy.
“This is a subject that doesn’t surprise you I know a lot about, given my background, where I was born, just 400 miles from the action. I can articulate both positions,” he says.
Shoukri says his personal stance on Israel-Palestine is irrelevant.
“I stand for everyone’s right to live in peace and feeling included. There are many injustices associated with this problem (Israel-Palestine), both historic, before the establishment of the state of Israel, and others after the establishment,” he adds.
Injustices such as the Holocaust, which Shoukri describes as “incredible, tragic and criminal acts,” are reflected in the nature of the struggle at York. Similarly, the injustices done to Palestinians are reflected also, as is the killing of innocent people.
“I almost had a dream I would see the end of this problem peacefully, because, in my view, it’s the same people fighting over real estate. The extremists on both sides is what’s preventing a solution,” opines Shoukri.
“I’ve been accused of bias by the extremists of both sides,” he says.
“Look at the world – there are so much resources, so much wealth, there is so much knowledge, an unprecedented amount of knowledge. The human capacity for knowledge seems to grow exponentially.”
In this environment, he finds it hard to accept people will kill one another because they belong to different tribes or fighting for land when the world is open to all of us.
“I can’t accept, given the resources in the world, that one person in the world will go to bed without dinner. I’ve been a called a socialist, but there’s no reason for this (poverty).”
Goodness is not limited to one group, and bad people exist everywhere, he adds.
Tuition:
Shoukri says he’s an advocate of zero tuition and taxpayers should be able to handle that.
“My criteria is that no one, who desires and has the capacity to pursue university education, should be prevented because of resources,” he says.
“I will add – should not feel prevented. Not all students are well informed enough to know what is available, because a number of bursaries in a given year are not used.”
Moreover, there are institutionalized barriers, particularly for women in science, technology, engineering and mathematics. Shoukri says students should not prematurely decide which academic discipline is the right one for them, nor should students and their families believe they are not university material, merely because of financial barriers.
However, in the present financial climate, should the government mandate a tuition hike, Shoukri says he’ll have no choice.
Grandstanding, Formality, and Bureaucracy
“I see you (the media) as an opportunity to share my thoughts with people, which sometimes, the incredible amount of formalities that the system has created is the biggest. Maybe that’s the best way to say ‘what’s the biggest thing I don’t like’ is the incredible amount of formality.”
Shoukri resents on the floor of Senate, calling his colleagues “Senator Smith.” He resents being called “Senator Shoukri.”
“My name is Mamdouh and please, do pronounce it. If you’re talking about colleagues, that’s my name. I’m not Senator Shoukri. Call me by my name. If you go to Senate, you will realize I am the only one who calls everybody by their name. What kind of collegial environment is this where I have to call you ‘Senator Smith’? So superficial. I mean, I’m not saying the people doing this are superficial. This is the tradition I walked into. Don’t take as I’m criticizing an individual. This is what I walked into. I was in a university accused of being more formal and I never heard that phrase.”
At one time, Shoukri was accused when he called a student by her first name, somebody stood up and said “are you calling her by first name because she’s a woman?”
“I swear to you, that happened to me when I first came,” he says.
“I said call me by my first name, and if you don’t, I will assume that you cannot pronounce it. People call me ‘Dr. Shoukri’ because they can’t say ‘Mamdouh.’ Making a mistake is better than calling me ‘doctor’ or ‘president,’ or, god forbid, ‘Senator Shoukri.’ That’s too superficial for me.”
When he was much younger, Shoukri thought the job of the university president was to be one of the thought leaders of society. And he’s finding the complexity of the system has made the university president least able to be the thought leaders for society because they have to manage all the fires, all the accusations, all the negativity, all the conspiracy, and the government that doesn’t want you to say certain things.
The government has certain ideas they have to adjust themselves to in order to make sure they we don’t get disadvantaged by what they’re doing.
Shoukri says the most frustrating part of his job is the extent to which people say ‘no’ at York, which far exceeds what he’s experienced at other institutions. In one instance Shoukri commented on criticisms he received regarding the selection of deans, vice-presidents, and presidents.
“So it’s easy for [senators], if you like the microphone and love to hear yourself [talk, it] is [easy] to say ‘oh but the people we elected don’t represent my view.’ I don’t know how to deal with this. Don’t elect them next time.”
“I’m willing to have any subject discussed when I think there is a legitimate interest in having a discussion, not grandstanding. There’s more grandstanding here than I’ve seen before,” he said.
“I’m not leaving tomorrow, guys. I still have a long way to go. So I’ll pay for what I said to you.”
Excalibur asked if he thinks there is a lot of posturing at York.
“Of course. And again, there is a lot of intimidation that’s happening in every community on campus by the louder.
Not that I don’t want to have a loud voice, but I want others to have an opportunity [to speak], it’s part of inclusion.”
So we have to walk the talk, to go back to his favourite topic. Shoukri’s favourite topic is the underdog.
“And the underdog doesn’t always have to be the poorest. But it is the poorest, it’s the least able to speak, the person who wants to speak and they cannot because she or he is afraid,” he says.
When Shoukri first came to campus, in one of his first speeches he said he wants his office to be the safest place on campus. He wants everyone who feels hard-done-by to be able to access the president personally. This is the most important part of his job. The things that inhibit you from doing the things you enjoy are enormous, he says.
CUPE 3903
In response to allegations that York is digging its heels when it comes to the bargaining agreement, Shoukri explained that there is in fact a conflict on different interpretations of part of the agreement.
“And it is supposed to be arbitrated. It is part of the process and part unfortunately in creating polarization.
However, my understanding is hopefully there are some discussions which will lead to some resolution to this, not because anybody is right or wrong. It’s just mostly because I don’t think it is wise for York to always find issues of disagreement.”
Shoukri says a fundamental part to this, and one of his priorities, is to increase research.
“York has some of the greatest areas of research in the country and frankly, on average we just don’t make the mark as a research intensive university.”
As someone who has been involved in education all his life, Shoukri says there are two things important to increasing research: good faculty and good graduate students.
So, let’s focus on good graduate students.
“We are certainly making more sure than before that hiring is driven by both teaching and research.” Shoukri isn’t convinced that in York’s history, this criteria was met all the time.
What will make the best graduate students come to York? Two things: one is the program or the topic and the faculty members. Two is the compensation package, he says.
“As a grad student, you accept that you live in some level of poverty. So the better the package, the more attractive [the program].”
“So it is inconsistent. I would be crazy to come to York and say that I will support research intensification while allowing the net income of our PhD students to erode. Doesn’t make sense.”
People consider activism to be the objective, rather than the tool for change, he adds.
“I was labelled a student activist in my time, but I never thought this was my objective. I was an activist trying to change things. And I think activism is generally associated with change.”
